A Response to the NEW Bay of the Holy Spirit Healing Video (Delia’s Healing)
This is a new video distributed by The Bay of The Holy Spirit Revival. It is worth taking a look at. This blog is a continuing conversation about the healing of Delia Knox. To catch up on the conversation see my September 2 blog on Delia’s healing.
My first response….I think this looks real.
I have a friend of Delia’s who emailed me. She, like many others, is convinced that this is real. I do not have permission to share her name or e-mail on my blog. You can find a comment of hers in response to my September 2 blog on Delia’s healing.
This friend also told me that there is a some “name-it-and-claim-it” nonsense at this revival. If some of the preaching is truly unsound, the Bay of the Holy Spirit Revival raises many questions for Churches to consider:
- Should we believe that God moves amidst seroiously unsound preaching?
- If “name-it-and-and-claim it” preaching is spiritual abuse, and hurts people, why is God doing miracles amidst spiritual abusers?
- Should we go to these revivals?
- Why isn’t God doing miracles amidst the sound preaching of Scripture?
- Does God care more about the hungry faith in our heart than the doctrinal correctness in our head?
Some passages come to mind as I think about this revival:
Deut. 13: 1-5, “If a prophet…appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder,” and through it leads people astray, “you must not listen to the words of that prophet….” Moses thought the unexamined prophet was dangerous. He said, “That prophet must be put to death.”
Jesus said, “Watch out for false prophets,” Matt. 7:15, and “false prophets will appear,” Matt. 24:4. The Apostle John said, “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits and whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone into the world,” 1 Jn 4:1.
I also think of Paul’s passage written while he was in prison:
Philippians 1:8 “But that doesn’t matter. Whether their motives are false or genuine, the message about Christ is being preached either way, so I rejoice. And I will continue to rejoice.”
Time will tell. Real public healings are unquestionable (see my Sept 2 blog). Please THINK as you watch this video. Anyone who suggests that believers should “turn their brains off” because a church has a convincing YouTube video must read a bizarrely self-contradictory Bible.
God may be healing her. I am going to wait and see. I have not seen medical documentation credibly establishing Delia’s level of mobility before these “miracles.” If Delia continues to im
prove and dumps the wheelchair altogether, I may believe this is God at work. I want to see some medical documentation. If Delia was unable to move or feel anything for over 20 years, there will be ample medical documentation. Where is it? I am already half-convinced. Please…show me more. It sure looks real.
I am bothered by the questionability of this healing and that there is reported “name it-and-claim-it” preaching. Did Delia connect with God and find a miracle…I hope so!
Paul’s words may be teaching us here,“…that doesn’t matter. Whether their motives are false or genuine, the message about Christ is being preached either way, so I rejoice. And I will continue to rejoice” Philippians 1:8.
Time will tell.
Gal. 1:8, 9 state that the purity of the “free grace Gospel” must be pure in a ministry for it to be genuine. Jesus’ ministry was authenticated by “sign gifts” throughout John’s Gospel, yet He (Jesus) never taught that we must believe a teacher due to the absence or presence of miracles. God expects & demands holiness in a person’s life, and that holiness can be imputed alone by confessing Christ & repenting of self-centeredness. When Scriptures state that we are healed by Christ’s wounds, the breach of sin has been lifted with all believers being healed of all defects at Christ’s appearance. Healing of our material body in the here & now accomplishes very little for this body will die eventually or it will be changed at the instant of Christ’s return. I write this with the full understanding that God alone is sovreign. He heals today as He has healed in the past. We can be assured that the “grace gift” of healing as it refers to one of the “gifts of the Spirit” has been lifted just as there can not be any more apostles for Paul was the last man to have seen the Resurrected Lord Jesus (1 Cor. 15).
Hi Robert,
I appreciate your comment. I pray for Delia and the church. I too see provision for healing in the atonement. I also see that (as I mentioned in my Sept 2 blog) the normative Christian life shows God’s strength in our hardships. We rarely escape them.
I love how this conversation has stirred my faith. It has encouraged me to pray. It has encouraged me to pray with my wife for the needs we are talking about right now in the lives of the people that we love. I love how this conversation has brought me to my knees. This is the Fruit of the Spirit.
My healthy skepticism is pretty evident. Miracles exist for the sake of the Kingdom. If they are confusing, they are not from God. While, people are more important than doctrinal fine points, Scripture was written for people’s relationship with God. It is in love that God guides us through Scripture. It is unloving to simply “believe” while ignoring scripture’s direction. We risk the hearts of precious people
when we do so….
God bless,
Roy
I’ve watched several times online through streaming video and have not heard any “name it and claim it” preaching. He preached Jesus, repentance, being set free and being sold out to Christ. Tonight his message was “are we fans or followers of Jesus?” Good food for thought! There were probably a lot of revival fans or Jesus fans there tonight, but he was strong on “you must be a follower”. He made it known that in the dark times to come, being a fan of Jesus won’t be enough, we have to be his follower. Have you watched the revival online or been to it personally?
Hi Betsy,
So far, what I hear online is great. I am trying to find time to listen to more of it. I have several friends who have attended and are continuing to go. The reports I hear are not critical of the recorded sermons. I am primarily concerned with the questionability of this healing. I am still asking questions and listening. What I saw on the first video raised some real concerns. Take a look at my Sept 2 blog and the post from the medical doctor who specializes in working with handicapped patients like Delia.
Please understand that leaders worry when we see experiences in the church that can hurt people. The Apostle Paul modeled questioning the “order” in the administration of spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12). Paul instructed leaders to follow his example. The church has an epidemic of harmful healing practices going on right now (at least in the opinions of many loving leaders). Leaders need to ask questions so that people do not get hurt. To not ask questions and allow people to be hurt is a serious sin.
In scripture, when Jesus is involved in healing a person, the healings are total and complete. They also take place during an immediate ministry event in an unquestionable way. I do not see anywhere in Scripture where healings are not complete within a single ministry experience…literally, as we watch it happen via scripture.
I am open to any medical reports that are published. I still do not see anything that adrenaline and emotional power could potentially explain. I find good reason to question what I see here. If Delia is in her wheelchair again in a few weeks, the experience will have been very questionable. Time will tell. My prayer for her, after all of her faithfulness in ministry, is that she is walking circles around anyone who had doubted her healing. As you have read, I am sad and concerned….This is either a beautiful thing or very troubling.
I appreciate your post.
God bless,
Roy
I do understand the concern; however, she does appear to continue to be walking, but as you say time will tell if she will be completely healed to walk normally. I pray that she will. There also have been other healings that have taken place with some of them substantiated by doctor reports afterwards. However, even if there were no noticeable physical miracles happening, I think the preaching alone and the salvations that seem to be happening should cause God’s people to be humbled at his awesome outpouring of mercy and grace on the people of the Gulf Coast. Our God is Mighty!
Hi Betsy,
You said, “I think the preaching alone and the salvations that seem to be happening should cause God’s people to be humbled at his awesome outpouring of mercy and grace on the people of the Gulf Coast. Our God is Mighty!”
AMEN!
The bible says Judge not and you will not judged. This is and was truly a judgemental spirit and as a prophetess I am telling to take your hand off Gods anointed vessel because we are the last days and gods miracles are still happenening.
Hi Rowena,
I appreciate your post. Did you read my article carefully?
Next to the flash of an apparent healing my words can seem unimpressive. But remember Paul’s words to the Corinthians when some impressive and eloquent speakers came through town proclaiming a “new” twist on the message Paul had previously proclaimed. “For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are” (1 Cor. 1:26-28).
We must be careful not to allow “impressive experiences” to distract us from reading Scripture for ourselves in authentic Berean community. Scripture calls us to test what we hear by scripture. Deut. 13: 1-5, “If a prophet…appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder,” and through it leads people astray, “you must not listen to the words of that prophet….” Moses preached that unexamined prophet was dangerous. Jesus said, “Watch out for false prophets,” Matt. 7:15, and “false prophets will appear,” Matt. 24:4. The Apostle John said, “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits and whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone into the world,” 1 Jn 4:1.
The most important leading we have is not what we “feel God is doing” but, what God has already (in fact) said through scripture. Scripture alone must hold the ultimate authority for our beliefs and practices in life.
“…false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect,” Matthew 24:24. “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables, II Timothy 4:3,4.”
I see that there is some good in this revival. People are clearly and passionately seeking Jesus. If this healing does not prove itself “unquestionable” over time, it will not be a genuine work of the Holy Spirit. If we have hype instead of hope, people are going to be hurt.
I hope this helps….
God Bless,
Roy
One more quick comment, take a look at my Sept 2 blog on this experience. http://royshaff.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/are-questionable-or-progressive-miracle-healings-real/ This explains my concerns a little better. The comments that follow are good. There is a remarkable comment from a physician whose practice cares for handicapped patients like Delia. I hope it is a blessing to you.
Rowena,
I would think that one claiming to walk in the office of prophetess would know scripture better. “Judge not lest ye be judged”? That’s the end all response of the biblically ignorant to anybody who asks questions they cannot answer.
You also use your alleged office as an authority to commnad Roy: ” as a prophetess I am telling to take your hand off Gods anointed vessel”
A few things are wrong with this.
1. God has not commanded us to follow your authority
2. I am quite certain that Roy has not laid a hand on Delia
3. You refer to Delia as “God’s anointed vessel”, and commit the charismatic fallacy of thinking some believers are anointed, and are thus protected from criticism, while others are not. ALL believers are anointed. ALL are subject to questioning. Paul never rebuked anyone for confirming his preaching. He encouraged it.
Lucas,
Thanks for your comment!
God bless,
Roy
fully Agree Lucas , thank you for you comment .
Everyone has right not only to believe but also to understand , God doesn’t want robots to serve to Him , That’s y should be happen the miracles so the Name of The Lord to be praised !
Allow me to provide an update to my comment on your previous post. While the event has not been mentioned on Delia’s music website, her church’s website (http://www.lwccim.com) has a video posted on the home page. They’re clearly not shying away from proclaiming this a healing.
Her bio page on their website (http://www.lwccim.com/bio_pastordelia.html) also mentions the healing and links to the YouTube video.
That shows a high degree of confidence, and I can only hope that this does not lead to disappointment in the future. I dearly hope that this is not used by the enemies of the gospel to bring dishonor to the cause of Christ!
Marty,
Thanks for the update.
God bless,
Roy
Hi,
I googled your blog after a comment on a YouTube video I just saw.
I live in Jamaica, where Delia visits regularly, she has been for many many years. I saw the first video (Aug 27) and was in tears. Not so much about the miracle but because I know as many times as she has been here in Jamaica, she has never “begged” for her healing. She was always such a happy whole woman.
I cried because she couldn’t walk thats for sure, and now she can at least hobble, which as a non-medical person I assume is reasonable having not used your legs in over 20 years. So for me its pretty simple.
I know there is much skepticism in the US and in Alabama especially. What I wonder is, what is the question really? Is the question was she healed? Is it that we are wondering if God is playing some kind of trick and will “take the healing back”? What are we really skeptical about? Are we thinking that maybe she was healed long ago and didnt bother telling anybody? I really am just trying to understand why the doubt if there is evidence.
I am a Christian who loves the simplicity of the Gospel. So…would love to hear your thoughts. Some comments I have seen have been really very nasty and I ignore those, but your blog intrigues me because I believe you are a Christian as well.
So, what say you?
Hi Alysia,
I looked at the critical comments as well. The comments on many blogs are rough! Some are just mean. Others are honest and have been invited by circumstances.
I think the ultimate statement about a miracle is its unquestionability. I think the Jesus, the Apostles, and all of the Prophets demonstrate unquestionable miracles that can be identified in a single ministry event. If Delia’s healing is clearly unquestionable, in the very near future, I will see it as a single ministry event. I will praise God and update my blog!
I expect that, at this point, we have seen what we are going to see. If Delia, her family, or the ministry publishes an appropriate portion of past medical records documenting (the clear claim) that Delia had an absolute absence of feeling and mobility for 20+ years, then this is an unquestionable miracle already. With the claim of a complete absence of feeling and mobility for 20+ years, this should be very east to produce.
However, medical documentation has not been published to demonstrate the claims of Delia’s previous condition. Many people, myself included, would even accept an appropriate quote from her doctor. The absence of follow through in these matters raises good questions.
It would be a shame to miss the opportunity to praise God and document the reality of miracles today because this ministry fails in due diligence. If we never see more, the miracle will appear to be questionable.
God bless,
Roy
Roy,
First of all I would like to thank you for not taking the hyper-critical look at this revival that so many have and will continue to do.
As I read your postings and the comments of others I am left with a few questions.
1. If Delia receives a full and complete healing over a period of weeks or months, what will be your explanation for that since you have made it clear that this would be unbiblical and would not follow Christ’s example?
2. If “sound” preaching does not result in the same fruit that Christ exhibited, is there a possibility that it may not actually be “sound” but rather is believed to be “sound” by the teacher?
3. Is it possible that although we as believers are told to go into the world and preach the gospel with signs following(Mark 16) that we may not function in the fullness of power that Christ functioned in at a particular point in our lives? For example, when you command a spirit to leave a person that is obviously demonized, have you ever experienced a delay in the deliverance of that individual?
4. Christ did not minister to a single born again “believer” during his ministry on earth. Is it possible that this is why He did not expect any “belief” from someone who was being prayed for?
I’ll leave this post with those questions but may have more for you in the future.
Thank you for your honest consideration of these questions.
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the post.
You asked:
“1. If Delia receives a full and complete healing over a period of weeks or months, what will be your explanation for that since you have made it clear that this would be unbiblical and would not follow Christ’s example?”
Response – I think the ultimate statement about a miracle is its unquestionability. I think the Jesus, the Apostles, and all of the Prophets demonstrate unquestionable miracles that can be identified in a single ministry event. If Delia’s healing is clearly unquestionable in the very near future, I will see it as a single ministry event. I expect that, at this point, we have seen what we are going to see. If she or the ministry publish medical records showing an absolute absence of feeling and mobility for 20+ years, then this is an unquestionable miracle already. It would be a shame to miss the opportunity to praise God and document the reality of miracles today because the ministry fails in due diligence. If we never see more, the miracle will appear to be questionable.
“2. If “sound” preaching does not result in the same fruit that Christ exhibited, is there a possibility that it may not actually be “sound” but rather is believed to be “sound” by the teacher?”
Response: Sure, sincere people are wrong all the time. One can be sincere and wrong.
“3. Is it possible that although we as believers are told to go into the world and preach the gospel with signs following(Mark 16) that we may not function in the fullness of power that Christ functioned in at a particular point in our lives? For example, when you command a spirit to leave a person that is obviously demonized, have you ever experienced a delay in the deliverance of that individual?”
Response: I ask myself this question often…Jesus direction to the Disciples/Apostles was a statement to them, at that time. At the time, they did see these miracles in a normative fashion. The early church did NOT continue to see them normatively. We do NOT see them normatively today. History has hermeneutical implications. So, I am not sure this is a statement to us. James 5 does have direction for us to follow, but the direction is less clear. If you Google the passage, you will find that the Greek language is more ambiguous than our English translations. I do believe in healing…. At this time in my life, my theology in this area is incomplete. This is an honest answer based on solid observations. I hope it helps.
“4. Christ did not minister to a single born again “believer” during his ministry on earth. Is it possible that this is why He did not expect any “belief” from someone who was being prayed for?”
Response: OK…simply an awesome observation on your part! Kudos! My own opinion is that miracles are a sign of the Gospel. Belief is not always needed. Unquestionability is always demonstrated. Jesus did suggest that belief was often was very important. Jesus said that he would not do miracles in his own hometown because of unbelief.
God bless,
Roy
I appreciate your blog about Delai Knox. I’ve seen the video on Facebook and had questions myself.
I have been in charismatic churches for over 20 years. I have seen healings fade: Back pain healed one night, returning to cripple the person in a few days. Chronic medical conditions that clear up suddenly, but return in force next week.
One MUST ask questions. We are never told in scripture to be “open minded”, to accept apparent miracles, to disregard any objections. Just the opposite: We are told to test all things. We are told that there will be false signs and wonders that will lead people astray.
It pains me to see Christians so willing to embrace alleged miracle before scutinizing them the least bit. Take the latest video, for example. The title says she walked unassisted, but she is clearly being helped. But people won’t see that. They won’t question why the unassisted is being assisted.
Hi Lucas,
Your comment is great. I have the very same thoughts myself.
God bless,
Roy
I’ve just come across this blog whilst checking out the Mobile revival – this is a late response to Lucas H’s comment of Sept 10 – I hope that WordPress puts it in the right place.
Lucas, what you describe (“healings” that don’t last) is commonplace and happens throughout the charismatic and pentecostal worlds. These false healings are created by an endorphin high and/or altered state of consciousness (hypnotic trance) that many people experience whilst in a meeting. It wears off after anything between a few hours and a few days. In the majority of situations the people leading the meeting are experts at manipulating people and creating the circumstances for this to happen. Prolonged repetitive music and certain styles of preaching are key elements. You’ll see it, for example, at every Benny Hinn “miracle crusade”, which is really just a stage hypnosis demonstation.
So it’s nothing more than a psychosomatic phenomenon, and is no more miraculous than taking a tablet, which also provides short term pain relief.
But it’s also (1) sinful and (2) extremely dangerous. The fake healers who trick people in believing they have been healed make huge amounts of money from their activities, and in many cases I would question whether they are truly Christians, as they are engaged in long-term deceptive behaviour. And the people who find that their healing goes away can end up mentally ill, for if they are brainwashed into believing that God has healed them through an “anointed minister”, yet the symptoms come back, huge mental conflict is created and all sorts of problems result. There are stories of people who’ve stopped taking medication and have died, because they’ve been told that God has healed them.
I learnt all this when I did some research at the time of the Lakeland “Revival” in 2008 and it’s actually quite shocking. It became obvious that such deception is widespread in charismatic and pentecostal christianity and has been going on for years. Pretty much all the big names are implicated.
The bible commands us to be wise and discerning, and I praise God that you are doing this. Sadly, you’ll find it will bring you into conflict with many, but the Lord will honor you.
PS if anyone needs any more information on this topic, post a comment and, with Roy’s approval, I’ll be glad to help.
I respect your right and even the wisdom of questioning, but I have a comment on this sentence: “This friend also told me that there is a [sic] some “name-it-and-claim-it” nonsense at this revival”. This is hearsay of dubious value in my opinion. It is so easy to label ministries glibly – I thank God He does not write us off so easily when our ideas don’t line up with His perfect wisdom. I used to wonder what sort of people could be so lacking in simplicity and childlike faith as to be more concerned with pulling apart a miracle than falling down in awe and wonder and thanks at God’s love and compassion to us in our frailty and weakness – now I know. Even sincere people can get it wrong on both sides of this debate and I trust we are all humble enough to remain open to God’s Spirit in all things and at all times.
Personally I have found that too much thinking is as bad as too little…
Ben,
I had honest second-thoughts after writing that. It bothers me too…a little. My friend and her husband are pastors of a church strongly established in the “signs and wonders” movement. Because so many of those in the “signs and wonders” community are unfairly harsh with critics, I am stuck with anonymity when it comes to using their names. I have a few truly horrible comments from people that I have not posted. There are those who say horrible things about anyone who questions “God’s anointed.” More than a thousand people have read by articles on Delia’s healing this past week. I am not saying this to brag….I am surprised that I have not received more criticism. I think most people are understanding of this because journalists use “anonymous reputable sources” on articles.
When I wrote this, I did not list all of the possible concerns that I have about Killpatrick, because I did not want to be overly critical. Kilpatrick pronounced a very widely known false prophecy against Hank Hanegraaff, president of the Christian Research Institute in Southern California and host of the nationally syndicated radio show “Bible Answer Man,” at Brownsville Assembly of God in a televised revival message on April 6, 1997. The following quote of from the transcript of his sermon. It can easily be found by an internet search:
“I want to say something this morning to Hank Hanegraaff….You better back off, because I am going to prophesy to you that if you don’t, and you continue to put your tongue in your mouth on this move of God, within 90 days the Holy Ghost will bring you down….Within 90 days the Holy Ghost will bring you down! And I speak that as a man of God. … This is a move of God and you better leave it alone.”
On June 18 — 72 days after he prophesied that the Holy Spirit would smote Hanegraaff — Kilpatrick recanted and apologized. Kilpatrick later told journalists that looking back, he thinks he showed poor judgment. He also claimed that what he said was “not a prophecy.” This quote was in several news papers and can also be found by internet search.
Kilpatrick’s change of heart bothers me. He spoke falsely in the name of the Lord. Even though his apology is ethical and good. When he says that he wasn’t making a prophecy — he is doging the facts. The transcripts of his televised sermon clearly shows that he did. False prophecy, is a big deal. A false prophet is no small matter.
Also, The Pensacola News Journal (John Allman, “Kilpatrick’s claims cast doubt, leave questions unanswered,” Pensacola News Journal, April 5, 1998, pg. 2.) caught Kilpatrick with a few tall tales: “Kilpatrick also told the journalist covering his appearance in Arizona that Alabama Gov. Fob James was saved at the Brownsville revival and that the governor is a regular revival attendee. James’ office says otherwise. David Azbell, spokesman for James, said the governor is an Episcopalian and has never attended the revival. Another quote from the article, “Kilpatrick also said in Arizona that U.S. Rep. Joe Scarborough, R-Pensacola, was saved at the revival. A spokesman for Scarborough, who is a Southern Baptist, said the congressman attended only two Brownsville Revival services.”
These are also matters of concern for me.
I appreciate your comment.
God bless,
Roy
I find it very interesting. I hope the revival is built on the word of the Living God. I’ve been in the Charasmatic movement for over 20 years–there are true works of the Holy Spirit and there are false actions of men. We do need DISCERNMENT. It is good to discern. The Lord also said, “Judge with righteous judgement.” He wants us to be discerning. Every “word,” “prophecy,” and “dream” can be tested through prayer and the wisdon of God. This is what we see from Genesis to maps!! Blessings to you.
I think it’s obvious there is no miracle hear. Everything in life is a miracle and mighty work of God. The so-called profits, and pastors, preach and teach lies for hire. They make bold shows and yet the Truth of God is not mentioned at all. Anyone who believes in such things is sadly mistaken, these men and women should be ashamed of themselves for heaping more chains on people as they “pretend to bring fire down from heaven”. It is unbelievable why so many people care for the natural and care so very little for the healing of a man and woman’s heart. The outward man perishes, the inaward man is renewed day by day. I’ve seen deaf ears healed by implants, I’ve seen blind eyes open by surgery, these are true miracles, cancer and many diseases go into remission, but none of which is happening at these so called signs and wonders parades. Who will stand up for this generation? I for one, want to see LOVE, FORGIVENESS, COMPASSION AND CHARITY spread throughout the land, and care less about a woman who has been in therapy being carried around for the big show. Peace to you all, great blog. jacob
Two words for Rev. Roy & Jacob “Doubting Thomas”
So this woman is Jesus now?
Hello Pastor Roy,
Did you watch the updated video “NEW Delia walking unassisted at the Bay of the Holy Spirit Revival”? At about of 51 seconds, no one is supporting her at all. The gait is still not completely normal, but certainly she’s walking without anyone touching her.
I can remember years ago in a church service, someone proclaiming a word as being given from God to me through them…I scoffed to myself, because I thought differently of my self than what they were saying God said of me. I thought the brother was putting on, as if he were being used in the gifts.
A week later a sister-in-law came in from out of town. The men left & the females (3 of us) left behind decided to pray over the family. At the end of our prayer time, this sister-in-law prayed in an unknown language & I could tell God was speaking a specific word. She looked at me and said, “Tena, I believe this word is for you….” Brother Roy, it was the same word that was given me a week earlier by the other person, whom I scoffed. I was very humbled and broken. I decided then and there that I would never attribute a thing of God to man or satan again. I would keep doors open and let the Holy Spirit weed out what was wrong. And believe me, I have been very aware in the Spirit of wrong spirits.
Pastor Roy, I very much respect Pastors and anyone who devote themselves selflessly to the ministry. It’s humbling for me to approach you on something on which we have different convictions, but I have to look at Jesus… I can’t look at this as just a “difference” we have, but if Jesus IS doing a miraculous thing, what are we telling Him to His face that we think about it…about Him. Are we causing unbelievers to go even farther away from salvation, because we portray His true workings as some hype of people? These things He does for His glory…that He may be known. Are we working against Him?
satan’s still very hard at work to make the truth look like a lie. He did that same thing when Jesus came out of the tomb…gave a different explanation of what happened. It’s that same spirit traveling through the ages with an assignment to discredit Him…to block Him.
Dear Brother, please seek the Lord, pray and fast earnestly. Ask that your eyes be open to nothing but Truth. Your blogs, I’m sure, are influencing many people…you take a big responsibility. I know you sincerely believe what you believe and your heart is to stand up for the Truth of Jesus. And I do agree that we can be sincerely wrong.
Respectfully,
a fellow soldier for Jesus
tena
Tena, I’ve just re-checked the video. Around 51 secs there is a man on the left of the screen holding her right arm, and he also appears to have a hand on her back as well. If he ever lets go, it’s only for a second or so. I don’t think it’s reasonable to call this “walking without someone touching her”.
In addition please see the report of this incident on http://www.charismamag.com/index.php/news/29198-woman-walks-for-first-time-in-22-years-during-alabama-revival-meeting
If you look at the reader comments, there are several – #138, 144, 146, 151, 152, which strongly suggest she has not been healed and mention a statement, but I can’t find this online.
However, conversely, there is a Facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pastor-Delia-Knox-Miracle-Updates/147626928605051#!/pages/Pastor-Delia-Knox-Miracle-Updates/147626928605051 which does indicate that a healing has taken place, and links to a YouTube video where she is standing up.
It will be interesting to see how this develops…
Richard,
Sorry about the technicality regarding Delia “walking without someone touching her”. Guess I didn’t see it that well. The man behind her (husband?) could have had his arm out ready incase she falls. When babies learn to walk, our instincts are to have our arms stretched out, in case of a fall. (And there was a pretty good stretch and distance from them physically…maybe he wasn’t touching her at all for more than a few seconds?) Regardless(!!)…I don’t understand how anyone can say that she is not healed. I am a nurse. Everyday I have patients that have epidurals. They have very little movement and many have NO ability to help themselves AT ALL. If several men were to support these patients for walking before the epidural has worn off adequatley, the patient’s body would be just dead weight jelly and she would be on the floor in a flash if left to the degree that Delia was when they were at her side. It would take supporting the trunk of the body…not just the arms. They helpers would have to be very close to the patient in order to keep the dead weight from pulling her down. They would have to actively be holding her up. If it were just the arms supported, the patient would have to use a lot of the own power in their arms to help support them. In no way could her elbows be above her shoulders.
The different conclusions of the public out there amaze me. I think the theology (healing’s not for today, perhaps) is so ingrained, that people cannot give credit to the fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a paralyzed person to display what Delia did in this video… Richard, I believe with all my heart that people can see undeniable proof that she’s been paralyzed, then she can run a race with that person and that person will maintain the position that she is not healed. Honestly.
Looking at some of the comments, there’s remarks of her gait not being normal, or that she’s being helped or that it’s not the way Jesus did it, etc…it reminds me of how the Pharisees and Saducees strayed from the truth of Jesus by going off onto all these little tangets and technicalities, finding ANY reason at all to discredit Him. At some point He stopped answering them because He knew He already put out the truth several times and they were not after the truth at all, but just out to discredit Him. Maybe some did this and really did not know He was the Messiah. I believe that those who do not believe this to be a miracle honestly don’t KNOW that it is…that it is Jesus’ display of Himself to a lot and dying world. And, Richard, I know there are false “healers” out there that are peddling the Word of God to their advantage. And I know that for various reasons people think they are healed but they aren’t. We don’t have privilege to know all the why’s and wherefore’s.
Tena
Here is Delia’s twin sister testifying about her sister’s miracle. You should look at it. http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/9440361
I have been a Christian for over 40 years and a Charismatic one for more than 25. I went to churches that believed in healing but we seldom saw any. 11 years ago I started a ministry to teenagers and young adults in Cleveland, TN called Havenplace Community Youth Center. When we started witnessing to lost young people, drug addicts, cult members and others, we saw miracles on a regular basis. We never saw an arm grow out, but we had lots of other things happen, tumors disappeared, broken bones healed, deafness and all kinds of other things. God used these things to prove to these precious broken young people that he was real and that he loved them and many of them came to Christ. Some stayed healed and some didn’t. Not everyone we prayed for was healed. Some got healed right on the spot and others were healed over time. I can’t explain why all prayers are not answered or why all people are not healed and why some people don’t stay healed. Probably no one can except Christ. However, I have been changed by these experiences. I expected none of this because I didn’t think God would use someone like me to do these things. Then I heard a minister read Jesus’ words in John “Verily, verily whosoever believes in me will do the works that I do and greater works than these…….” I knew that a whosoever scripture means me and it was one of those moments when the words jump off the page and it forever changed my life. I looked at the works of Christ and knew that he did more than teach and that he did not qualify it and say “whosoever believes in me will do some of the same works, but not the miracles.” I am not any more special than any other believer in Christ. We all have the Holy Spirit inside us. For too many years I said I believed every word in my Bible, but I would explain away parts that weren’t happening in my church. I made excuses for why people weren’t healed and miracles didn’t happen. In my long Christian walk, I have believed everything from miracles passed away when the Bible was completed – to God uses some people to do miracles but not others and everything in between. I believed whatever I saw happening in my church was what was supposed to happen in the normal Christian life. In other words, my experience was the final arbiter of what the Bible said and not the actual Bible. I and others can interpret the Bible in a way that justifies our own experiences, or lack thereof, instead of looking at ourselves and saying Jesus left us a standard and we are not living up to it. I heard a minister say once that if you took a completely unlearned person and gave him a Bible and asked him to read the new testament and then explain what Christians were like, he would never come up with what we have in most of our churches. He would expect Christians to be doing miracles, casting out devils and preaching the gospel of the kingdom and turning the world upside down. I wish we were. There is a generation of lost young people who know nothing of the Bible and don’t care what it says and don’t see anything about the church that is worth showing up for. We need to all ask God to show up and do miracles in our churches. We must not be content to think that we are biblically sound and it’s too bad if they don’t come to our churches where they would not be exposed to “wrong teaching” instead of going to strange revivals. Look around, masses of them are not coming to our churches. This is not an inconvenience. This is a tragedy. I think that the Father is far more concerned about that, than whether revivalists are getting everything right doctrinally according to what any of us think. These young people do have a hunger for God. They want to know two things: “Is God real and does He care about me.” When people get out of wheel chairs it provides an answer to one of them and when the gospel is preached it answers the other. I hope that God will show up and do miracles in all our churches. Until He does, I am grateful for every salvation at this or any revival. We need to reach the lost and it is no good to talk about how biblically sound we are, if people are not being saved in our churches. People are coming to Christ in this revival. I am thankful. The people who are running this revival have made mistakes. I have made mistakes that I think are far worse, but God still is using me. I don’t deserve it and neither do the ministers in your church or in the revival, but God is looking for willing vessels not perfect vessels. He will use imperfect people to do his work just as Jesus did. No one reading about the disciples would come away thinking they were paragons. But Jesus used them anyway. Imperfect people are all he has to work with. He is long suffering and patient. He is kind and faithful and he will work on them and he will work on us until we reach “the fullness of the measure of the stature of Christ.” I would rather have to clean up the stall than have no ox. Would the people who criticize this revival really rather that it was not happening and that the people that have given their hearts to Christ still be lost, because the ministers don’t meet their criteria of sound theology. I can’t believe it. I got saved when I was 12 in a Methodist church that taught that if I committed another sin I was lost and had to get saved again. That teaching was wrong, but I was still saved and I am eternally grateful to that minister that preached the gospel to me even if he didn’t have everything right in his doctrine. I don’t like fraud and believe me in 25 years of Charismatic experience I have seen it. I have also seen the real and for the sake of the lost I hope to see lots more of the real and I hope preachers everywhere whether they have it all right will keep preaching Christ. Christ is able to complete the work of salvation and is committed to making us all into his image. One day we will all believe the same and until then probably none us are totally doctrinally correct, but all of us can reach the lost. I pray that your church will have revival. There have to be desperately lost people all around you. I pray that God will do miracles if that is what it will take to reach them. I believe you want to reach the lost too and that you care about hurting and sick people or you would never have started blogging about this. I want to encourage you, if you aren’t already doing it, to lay hands on the sick and the lost and see what God will do – because you are a “whosoever” too. The harvest is white …………………………
Now that’s what I call a well reasoned and passionate response! Thanks for taking the time. I really don’t see how the nay-sayers could object… but will be interested to see. I am following this blog post with intense interest.
I’ve been reading with great intent toward all the responses–super-skeptical, totally believing, and all in between. It’s because I’m largely in all those spots—wanting to believe, sometimes doubtful, beginning to see more of it’s real than I once believed.
This response by Karen Cate, though, is the best I’ve seen, and I’ve read a number of really good ones regardless of viewpoint.
Thanks, Karen, for your deeply passionate, yet apparently extremely objective and truthful response.
God bless to all,
Bert
I’ve now looked at the video. The title is exaggerated – she’s not walking unassisted – there’s always people holding her hands or arms, as far as I can tell. But she is moving her legs, in a strange and clumsy sort of way. It looks like she can lift her thigh from the hip, but this seems to be all or nothing, and it doesn’t appear that she can do anything with her knees or ankles. I have to say I am not convinced. I saw something that said she was paralysed from the waist down after a car wreck, but we don’t know exactly what this means. Perhaps she still had some limited muscle control. What I’d like to see is a statement from her physician saying that she’s now able to do something that she couldn’t. I don’t like being a sceptic but I’ve yet to see a verified claim of healing, and there’s a lot that are definitely false.
I can attest to the fact that in October, 1997, I personally carried a 36-year old mother of three, in a wheelchair, to Nashville, TN. I knew her from birth and was present at the surgery that left her paralyzed. I saw her with my own eyes, and she arose from the wheelchair, walked and ran without any assistance.
It’s now 13 years later and she is still walking PERFECTLY. No question – God healed her. He still heals today. Because of this, every one that knew her came to Jesus. The Mississippi Methodist Rehabilitation Center validated her healing . All doctors, therapists, and medical staff put her through the tests afterward.
For those of you who are Christians and find this difficult to believe, it’s a very sad commentary. Jesus Himself said, “When I return to earth, will I find faith?”
Jesus also said blessed are those who don’t see and still believe.
I trust the unbelief surrounding this miracle will not be used as a crutch to justify going through the motions in the lives of those who don’t believe–rather that this will be a catalyst that will cause all who hear and see to hunger and thirst and find a deeper walk with Him; that life will come into the dry bones as the Wind of the Holy Spirit blows through them.
After Lakeland I think people should know to question the teacing at these revivals. If anyone thinks Lakeland was great and you are unaware of any problems besides how it ended then check out this informative site. I really enjoy it as it sums up everything very nicely. God bless.
http://www.thouartthechrist.info/lakeland/
My wife and I adopted a child from an asian country. He was seven months old when he came to us. He had congenital glaucoma, and asthma both of which were verified by doctors. He had to take eye drops twice a day and he would often wheeze at night.
We sent out a prayer letter to our friends and asked them to pray for healing for our son. Shortly after that we had another eye examination to check the pressure in his eyes. The doctors were baffled. They could not find any problems. They made us come back three more times because they kept thinking they were making a mistake. After the third visit they told us not to come back anymore. He did not have congenital glaucoma! By the way, his wheezing stopped the vary day we sent out the prayer letter and he has not wheezed once since!
That was five years ago. His eyes and breathing are still perfectly normal.
I believe that miracles are supposed to be normal for the Christian life. I look for them every day! I pray for them always! I believe I have the authority in Christ, through His blood to do this.
I don’t need a doctors verification to prove that someone had been paralyzed from the wast down for 22 years. Come on, do you really think she faked this for all those years? Jesus is in the same business of healing today that he was 2000 years ago.
I say pour it on God. Equip us with the grace to handle what you are doing.
Been there, done that – at the Brownsville revival w/Pastor Kilpatrick who was put to shame a decade ago. Now they are pushing all that psycological nonsense all over again. Now pray for THEM with the TRUE Spirit of God.
I know this is an old post, but it came to mind and I thought I’d search for any updates on Delia’s case. I found the following video that shows her walking entirely unsupported. I think I’m going to have to take back what I said before about her being pulled around the auditorium. Delia is walking, maybe with a slight limp, but after over a decade in a wheelchair, this is extraordinary.
Here’s the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1YxJfLKF7c
She talks about it on stage here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJWLjpeflpY
I have never been to Mobile but I have heard Nathan Morris speak in the UK.
Nathan preaches the gospel. He preaches about the cross and the blood. He doesnt preach of an easy gospel but preaches the gospel of Jesus Christ. He might be a little rough around the edges and he may not be everyones cup of tea but he preaches God’s word whether you like it or not.
I believe Gods word when it says signs and wonders will follow the preaching of the gospel.
I have seen two unquestionable miracles in the last few months. A friend being healed of an incurable crippling disease and then two weeks later having total deafness healed instantaneously in her ear. A healing which would have required surgery and bone manipulation.
I am not a Nathan Morris supporter and I dont know Mr Kilpatrick but I do know Jesus and I am excited that Nathan preaches “This same Jesus”
God Bless You All
Pastor Roy,
Thanks for the blog brother.
I thought you brought up some great questions…
You might already know this but just incase… I just wanted to inform you that it would seem this isn’t the first time Miss Delia has stood up from her wheel chair. There are quite a few other videos online of Miss Delia standing during services held at her home Church. You can find them on youtube rather easily. Wha’ts most interesting though is that these videos were recorded/posted BEFORE the events of the “Bay of the Holy Spirit” took place. That says a lot… If Miss Delia really was fully paralyzed why are there many videos that seem to show otherwise recorded on several different occasions?
Also, in the Word of God we never see our Lord gradually healing someone from their physical ailment(s). It’s always instant! Mark 2:1-12 is a good example of this not only because healing occurs but also considering the fact that the healing involves with a paralytic man. The text even indicates that he is so badly paralyzed he had to be carried on a bed by four men. Mark also uses the word “immediately” when describing this man’s recovery. He experienced no therapy whatsoever…
But I think what these revivalist miss is the whole reason for the healing itself… When we read and interpret God’s word rightly, the whole point of the scripture isn’t even the healing itself, but rather Jesus displaying His authority to forgive sins, which we know only God can do. I’m sure you would agree with me that the miracles of Christ were only meant to point to His diety. So when Jesus says to this paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven”, he is in fact saying, “I am God.” This so called revival seems more about holding a concert, experiencing an emotional high, and giving money to their cause rather than preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. What are your thoughts on my comments Pastor Roy? And will you be blogging more concerning the revival? Also, are you close enough to Mobile see for yourself what exactly is taking place at these so called revivals?
Your brother in Christ,
Z.S. Holter
Hmmm… the “Prophetess” makes such a sweeping statement and then has not posted for many months. Interesting but also revealing to say the least.
Here’s an afterthought-I am so glad they brought out her twin sister on the stage that same night. If not, surely someone would have said that they had “pulled a switch”.